Military Writers’ Symposium Interviews

DeForge: What has been your most rewarding professional moment in or out of uniform?

Fabian: Every time I am invited to talk to cadets/civilian students or young military professionals, it feels equally rewarding. Sharing my experiences, views, and ideas to influence the thinking and professional development of the next generation are the most rewarding and the humblest moments in my life.

DeForge: What do you think today’s students need to focus on to prepare themselves to be effective and professional leaders in the future?

Fabian: To be an effective and professional leader in the future, students must create a lifestyle of “life-long learning” and unsatisfiable hunger for knowledge and experiences. As exercising is important for a healthy life or socializing with family and friends is necessary for mental health, continuous learning is the most important element of being an effective and professional leader.

DeForge: How did you translate what you learned in the classroom into real-world decision-making once you entered the military?

Fabian: Probably the most difficult part of being a leader is translating theory into practice. While identifying situations where different leadership models and management techniques have utility is challenging, when done successfully, they can help be more effective and successful leaders. Also, it is very important to understand that “all models are wrong, but some are useful,” meaning that no all-theoretical framework can always be translated into reality. Being okay with trial and error and being willing to learn from mistakes is fundamental to developing into good leaders.

DeForge: How does your experience as a soldier influence the way you write and communicate about writing and communicating about war and strategy?

Fabian: Having experience as a soldier is very useful when writing opinion pieces such as op-ed articles or books. At the same time, when writing research papers and academic articles, the utility of practical experience is limited to serving as a foundation for theory and hypothesis formulation, since most of these types of publications are mostly based on already published references and data that were collected and analyzed using scientific methods. While prior experiences can serve an author well, they can also limit open-minded thinking and become the source of certain biases.

DeForge: If you could offer just one piece of hard-earned wisdom to Norwich students preparing to enter the world, what would it be and why?

Fabian: There is no such thing as an expert. The more you learn, the more you should realize how little you know. Keep a curious mind, keep learning, and make an effort to surround yourself with people who make you better. Be a maverick, seek out other mavericks, and protect your mavericks.

Sandor Fabian, Ph.D., is a former Hungarian Special Forces officer with 20 years of military experience. Dr. Fabian served in multiple national assignments, including the senior Special Forces desk officer and advisor to the Hungarian Chief of Defense, and held the Force Assessment and Evaluation Branch Head position at the NATO Special Operations Headquarters (now Allied Special Operations Command).

Dr. Fabian is currently the Deputy Regional Advisor for Europe and Africa at the DOD`s Irregular Warfare Center as a Morgan6 contractor and an instructor and curriculum developer at Leidos Inc., supporting NATO Special Operations education, training, exercises, and evaluation efforts as a contractor. He is a graduate of the Hungarian Miklos Zrinyi National Defense University, holds a Master`s degree in Defense Analysis-Irregular Warfare from the U.S. Naval Postgraduate School, a graduate certificate in U.S. Intelligence Studies, and a Ph.D. in Security Studies, both from the University of Central Florida.

Dr. Fabian is the author of the book titled “Irregular Warfare: The Future Military Strategy For Small States” and has published several articles in peer-reviewed journals, including the Strategic Security Journal, the Defense and Security Analysis Journal, the Special Operations Journal, the Combating Terrorism Exchange Journal, the British Defence Studies journal, and the Hungarian Sereg Szemle and Honvedsegi Szemle journals. Dr. Fabian has also contributed several articles at the Modern War Institute, the Irregular Warfare Initiative, the Small Wars Journal, and the British Royal United Service Institute. Dr. Fabian`s research interests include irregular warfare, Russian and Chinese approaches to conflict, U.S. foreign security assistance, and special operations.

Goldenziel: Before we begin this interview, I’d like to state that my views are my own and do not necessarily represent those of the National Defense University, the Department of Defense, or any other arm of the U.S. government.

Keith: You’ve done a lot of speaking on leadership, a lot of teaching on it. Many people see leadership as an inherent skill that somebody is born with. Do you agree that there are natural-born leaders, or is leadership more connected to a specific skill set that can be honed and built upon?

Goldenziel: I think certain people are not born with, but develop as children, certain innate skills that are useful for leadership, like people skills and empathy. Those are traits that you can develop early on, but anyone can develop the skills and traits necessary to be a good leader later on in life. It just means you’re going to learn them in a different way, just like anybody has strengths and weaknesses. You can learn, study, and certainly work on developing your leadership skills. Every leader should continually learn and develop to become the best leader they can be.

Keith: Wonderful. Thank you. My second question: As someone with great experience in public speaking, you understand that staying composed is crucial to getting your point across. Is there a balance between staying composed and allowing humanity to shine through?

Goldenziel: Yes, definitely. And I would say one of the best training courses you’re going to get in staying composed is here at Norwich. But there is a balance, and it matters most when you’re talking about particularly emotional topics. When I’m talking about the law of war, I must be much more matter of fact and clinical to convey the message that this is a very serious matter, and there are life-and-death decisions involved. But if I’m talking about human rights or refugees, I absolutely need to be using that emotion and compassion, or my audience is going to think I’m cold. Also, I need to convey the depth of the tragedies that these people have faced. Really, it’s about connecting with your audience. It’s a leadership skill, as well, not just a public speaking skill. As a teacher, you need to be able to approach a certain topic in a clinically unbiased way, and when it’s important to understand that there’s a real emotional piece of the puzzle, you have to be able to address that as well to effectively address it as a leader.

Keith: When people think of warfare, oftentimes the on-the-ground combat is the picture that pops into our minds. In your opinion, is it more a physical thing that warfare is built upon, or is it more this behind-the-scenes, verbal diplomatic work that really drives what’s happening?

Goldenziel: It’s both. And I think that thinking of the conflict as a dichotomy between war and peace is a mistake. I think that military professionals recognize that most of the warfare we’ve been involved in has been gray zone warfare for a long time. That’s where we are now with Russia and China. When we were involved in the global war on terror, there were a lot of kinetic aspects of it that resembled armed conflict like we had in the past, but there were also a lot of gray zone tactics that were involved, and we were fighting an adversary that was a non-state actor for the most part, during most of those wars. I think that an understanding in the military community and among government members who work on strategy is that we’re not just looking at a dichotomy between war and peace. For most Americans, when they think of war, they still think about boots on the ground. They don’t understand that we are dealing with cognitive warfare and lawfare, things that affect Americans every single day, regardless of whether they wear a uniform or not, and regardless of whether they’re deployed or whether they’re here just living their lives.”

Dr. Jill Goldenziel is a professor at the National Defense University College of Information and Cyberspace, where she teaches future generals and high-level civilian officials from the U.S. and 83 countries. She regularly advises military and government leaders on international law and policy. Through her consultancy, Jill Goldenziel Strategy, she advises corporate leaders on leadership, global threats, and business risk. She has spoken all over the world, including before Congress, corporate executives, and global leaders from 193 states at the United Nations. As an arbitrator, she has helped adjudicate multi-billion-dollar investment disputes. She is a life member of the Council on Foreign Relations.

At NDU College of Information and Cyberspace, she teaches courses in international and constitutional law, leadership, strategy, lawfare, and information warfare to senior civilian and military leaders from the United States and allied and partner nations. She is a non-resident fellow at NATO’s Supreme Headquarters Allied Powers Europe/Allied Command Operations Office of Legal Affairs. She is also an affiliated scholar at the University of Pennsylvania’s Fox Leadership International program and Penn’s Partnership for Innovation, Cross-Sector Collaboration, Leadership, and Organization. She is a Forbes.com and Bloomberg Opinion columnist.

Dr. Goldenziel’s award-winning scholarship focuses on international law, U.S. and comparative constitutional law, human rights, refugees and migration, lawfare, and information warfare. In 2022, NATO ACO/SHAPE Legal Office awarded her the Serge Lazareff Prize for her work as a scholar-practitioner of legal operations (lawfare). In 2023, she deployed with an elite Marine unit to the Philippines to advise on lawfare and information operations during the largest U.S.-Philippine binational exercise, Balikatan. She has helped establish counter-lawfare programs and activities at the U.S. Indo-Pacific Command and other Combatant Commands and civilian agencies. She has received two Joint Civilian Service Achievement Awards from the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff for her work on lawfare and strategy.

Dr. Goldenziel’s award-winning research has appeared in the Cornell Law Review, the Harvard Journal of International Law, the American Journal of International Law, the American Journal of Comparative Law, the Virginia Journal of International Law, the University of Pennsylvania Journal of Constitutional Law, and the Arizona State Law Journal, among other scholarly journals. She has testified before Congress and briefed United Nations officials, world parliamentarians, and senior military leaders from 83 countries on her research.

Keith: You graduated from the University of Hawaii with a major in Asian studies, which to somebody not in your position may seem like an uncommon degree for somebody interested in militaristic endeavors. What would you say to someone who may think their major or area of study won’t be considered useful in the military?

Ishimoto: Virtually all degrees have some use in the military. As for Asian Studies, it was valuable in understanding the different cultures and history of Asia to allow me (and others) to better understand people that the military would have to interface with. Understanding the culture of others and speaking their language is eminently useful in military operations.

Keith: You have a plethora of knowledge in terms of military experience and tackling opposing forces in hands-on scenarios. Do you believe that understanding your opposition is one of the first steps towards defeating them?

Ishimoto: Sun Tzu referred to the fact that if one understands the enemy, as well as themselves, they need not fear in 100 battles. We made severe mistakes in Afghanistan after 9/11 simply because we did not understand the opposition. As an example, there were many who thought al Qaeda would fight and die at Tora Bora … that is not the way that virtually all insurgent elements operate. They will seek to disperse their efforts as a matter of survival.

Keith: You’ve taught Goju Ryu karate, which is a martial art form requiring incredibly focused breath. How has training your breathing helped influence other aspects of your life, both personally and professionally?

Ishimoto: Controlled breathing has proven to be useful to me in many circumstances. In Goju Ryu Karate, a harder form of breathing called “Ibuki” is used to build strength and to build courage. On the other hand, my practice of Aikido used another form of focused breathing which helped me relax and to become more alert.

Wade Ishimoto is a distinguished senior fellow with the Joint Special Operations University. He retired in 2012 as the special assistant to the Deputy Under Secretary of the Navy, a highly qualified expert, and was previously the senior advisor to the Assistant Secretary of Defense for Special Operations and Low-Intensity Conflict from 2004 to 2007. He is a retired Army Special Forces officer who served multiple tours in Vietnam and is a charter member and intelligence officer of the Delta Force. He led a roadblock team during the 1980 attempt to rescue 53 American hostages in Iran.

His accomplishments include induction into the U.S. Special Operations Command Commando Hall of Honor, receipt of the Distinguished Public Service Medal awarded by the Secretary of the Navy, recognition as a distinguished member of the Special Forces Regiment, and receipt of the Distinguished Public Service and Citizenship Award from the Pan Pacific American Leaders and Mentors.

He led a White House-directed examination of security preparations for the 1984 Olympics, which resulted in major federal assistance to federal, state, and local agencies supporting security for those games. He has been featured in the books Delta Force, The Guts to Try, Best Laid Plans, Those Gallant Men, Killer Elite, Never Surrender, and A Murder in Wartime.

He graduated from the University of Hawaiʻi with a major in Asian studies and obtained a master’s degree in Human Resources Development from Webster University. He is a former chief instructor of Shinbudo Kai Aikido, holding a sixth-degree black belt, and has also taught Goju Ryu Karate. He and his wife, Bobbi, reside in Virginia.

Keith Mohn: My first question for you today is that I know in your line of work, it seems like it’s a lot of heavier topics, and it’s a lot of heavy-duty work. I imagine it would be easy for you to experience some burnout. And so, my first question is, have there ever been moments where you felt disengaged from what you do, and if so, how did you rekindle your passion

Shuster: The closest thing that comes to mind is easing back into normality, you come back after weeks or months or longer in a war zone where everything just feels more immediate, more purposeful, more intense, and you just sort of feel detached from the concerns of that society, everything seems kind of shallow, superficial, uninteresting. It helps to do that transition in stages, give yourself a couple of days to decompress on the way home.

Mohn: No, that’s a great answer, and it moves well into my second question, which is, you’ve been on the front lines a lot. You’ve seen and witnessed some very chaotic moments. How do you stay structured in these moments where you’re just surrounded by, you know, just so much tumultuous energy? How do you hone in on staying in control?

Shuster: Well, first, I try to avoid those situations, as it’s just another concern for the military personnel that I’m embedded with, so I’ll stay behind and wait for people I can interview to talk about what just happened, and try to get some understanding of the situation that way. Are those two sentences worth the risk that you took for yourself and the additional risk that you created for the military personnel that you were embedded with? It’s a point of debate, lively debate in the journalist war correspondent community. We often wonder, who needs to be along for the ride to the front-line positions?

Mohn: There’s a lot of people who aren’t in your position who view journalism and politics and war as this us-versus-them, black and white issue. But I’m sure you know that it’s a very gray area. Are there, however, situations where war is black and white?

Shuster: There’s always nuance, chaos, and accidents, and often an event can seem cut and dry from a distance, but when you begin digging around for its root causes, it’s often a product of a lot of chance events and personal decisions by the people involved. The invasion of Ukraine is black and white. We know who the aggressor is, and we know who the victim is. Russia also claims victimhood in this war. That’s total nonsense, and just false. So as journalists, we need to call that out. In that sense, it’s black and white. On matters of who’s the aggressor and who’s the victim, I think it is important when it is that cut and dry to be firm in stating those ideas in your reporting. Don’t let anyone muck that up or pretend like that is some kind of unresolved question.

Simon Shuster has reported on Russia and Ukraine for over 15 years, most of that time as a staff correspondent for TIME Magazine. Born in Moscow, he and his family came to the United States as refugees from the Soviet Union when he was six years old and settled in San Francisco.

After graduating from Stanford University in 2005, Simon returned to Moscow to work as a reporter for The Moscow Times, Reuters, the Associated Press, and other publications. His political coverage of Russia’s descent into authoritarianism included numerous profiles of Vladimir Putin and interviews with Dmitry Medvedev and other top Russian officials. He has also interviewed and profiled the last three presidents of Ukraine, starting with Viktor Yanukovych, whose violent overthrow in 2014 he covered from Independence Square in Kyiv.

That winter, Simon was the first foreign reporter to arrive in Crimea as it was occupied by Russian troops. Since then, he has spent years covering the war in Ukraine from both sides of the front lines. The year after the annexation of Crimea, Russian authorities deemed Simon a security threat and banned him from entering the country.

Simon first interviewed and profiled Volodymyr Zelenskyy in the spring of 2019, when the actor and comedian was in the middle of his long-shot campaign for the presidency. Since Zelensky’s election victory, Simon has been granted unparalleled access to his administration, his close friends, aides, and staffers. He has traveled three times with President Zelensky to the front lines of the war in Ukraine and spent months reporting from inside the presidential compound in Kyiv as the Russian invasion unfolded.

He is the author of The Showman – Inside the Invasion That Shook the World and Made a Leader of Volodymyr Zelensky (January 2024). He is the 2025 William E. Colby Military Writers’ Award winner.

DeForge: What has been your most rewarding professional moment in or out of uniform?

Wilson: “There’s no single moment that stands above all others—rather, there’s a recurring one: the moment when something clicks in someone else’s eyes. That instant when a young officer, student, or policymaker realizes that strategy isn’t about power alone—it’s about purpose. It’s “for nation, not self.”

If I had to choose one instance, though, it might be during my time helping to design the “Campaigning under Compound Security Conditions” framework that guided U.S. Central Command (i.e., U.S. greater Middle East and Caspian Region pol-mil policy and strategy, and including our strategy to counter and combat the Islamic State)—a fusion of military art and civic strategy.

Watching that thinking take root across institutions, from the Pentagon to classrooms, and seeing how it equips leaders to navigate a world of overlapping crises, has been deeply rewarding. For me, it affirmed that intellectual work, when wedded to practice, can change real-world outcomes—and that teaching is itself a form of service.”

DeForge: What do you think today’s students need to focus on to prepare themselves to be effective and professional leaders in the future?

Wilson: Three things:

(1) Learn to think systemically, not just sequentially—the world no longer gives us single-problem puzzles. Climate, technology, economics, and security now intertwine, and the best leaders can hold contradictions without freezing.

(2) Master the art of translation—between people, cultures, and domains. Whether in law, policy, or command, your ability to turn complexity into clarity for others will determine your impact more than any title or credential.

(3) Guard your civic compass. We live in a noisy age. The temptation to chase popularity over principle is real. Those leaders who endure are those who act as “guardians of legitimacy”—those who know that integrity and truth are national security assets, not mere virtues.

DeForge: How did you translate what you learned in the classroom into real-world decision-making once you entered the military?

Wilson: The classroom gave me theory—but more importantly, it gave me language.

Words like “strategy,” “sovereignty,” “risk,” and “justice” can sound abstract until you must make a call that really costs something.

In the field, theory became a compass. Clausewitz’s friction, for example, isn’t a metaphor—it’s the dust, the doubt, the data that won’t load when lives are on the line. My education taught me to pause, to frame, and to ask the right question before acting.

That’s what separates reaction from decision—the discipline to step back, think through consequences, and still move forward. The classroom trained that reflex.  (incidentally, from your inspiring bio sketch, it seems to me that the soccer field is that place for providing you with solace and reflection 😉).

DeForge: How does your experience as a soldier influence the way you write and communicate about war and strategy?

Wilson: It gave me humility.

When you’ve seen the human side of conflict—the villages, the soldiers, the collateral lives—abstraction feels dangerous. So, I write about war as something that happens not just on maps but inside societies and souls.

Experience in uniform gave me a deep respect for the limits of force, the difference between “force” and “power,” and for the cost of policy failure.

It also shaped my writing style: I try to make complex ideas accessible to both practitioners and citizens because, in democracy, strategy belongs to all of us.

I write not to glorify war, but to clarify its logic—so that maybe, next time, we need less of it.

DeForge: If you could offer just one piece of hard-earned wisdom to Norwich students preparing to enter the world, what would it be and why?

Wilson: Never confuse motion with progress.

We live in an era obsessed with speed—information, innovation, reaction. But wisdom often hides in stillness. Take time to think deeply before you move, and when you act, do so from a place of clarity, not compulsion.

Every great leader I’ve known—whether a general, an entrepreneur, or a judge—had a discipline of reflection. They understood that strategy isn’t the opposite of action; it’s the higher form of it.

So, pause, learn, listen—and then ‘go do’ something worth writing history about.

Isaiah (Ike) Wilson III (Colonel, U.S. Army, Ret.; former DoD HQE/SES II – equivalent) is a versatile soldier-scholar and geostrategist whose career bridges combat command, policy, and the classroom.

A decorated veteran with tours in the Balkans, Iraq, and Afghanistan, Dr. Wilson has provided strategic planning and advisory support to six four-star commanders, five Secretaries of Defense, multiple chiefs of mission, and presidents of several partner nations.

He currently serves as a professor of practice in the School of Politics and Global Affairs at Arizona State University, is president emeritus of the Joint Special Operations University, and founder and chief executive officer of Wilson W.i.S.E. Consulting LLC, advising on strategy, technology teaming, and organizational transformation.

Dr. Wilson earned his Ph.D. in government (international relations/American politics) from Cornell University. His book, Thinking Beyond War: Civil-Military Relations and Why America Fails to Win the Peace (2007; 2013), and his service on the 2003 Operation Iraqi Freedom Study Group helped catalyze reforms in U.S. post-conflict planning.

His scholarship – published in International Organization, Foreign Affairs, Parameters, Small Wars Journal, and other venues – focuses on grand strategy, defense reform, and civil-military relations. He has taught and led programs at Yale University, Columbia University, the U.S. Military Academy at West Point, and the National War College. Dr. Wilson is a life member of the Council on Foreign Relations and a senior future security fellow with New America.